Talk:Starfleet casualties
Division Colors The 2230s colors from will be added when the DVDs come out and some consensus can be reached. - Archduk3:talk 07:56, 7 July 2009 (UTC) :See Talk:Starfleet uniform (2230s) for the discussion of the 2230s colors from . - Archduk3:talk 17:36, September 16, 2009 (UTC) MACOs Why are the MACO casualties listed under the heading "Starfleet Casualties"? :The subsection begins by explaining that MACOs were not part of Starfleet. They are listed here because they were on Starfleet missions when they died. Perhaps this should be noted. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk I going to move the known MACO casualties back into this page since there are references to them in both the NX and Mirror sections already. Also, Archer made no distinction between MACO and Starfleet casualties on his mission, and I feel there isn't any reason too either. The differences between MACO and Starfleet will be noted. _ Archduk3 20:37, 9 June 2009 (UTC) ::Why not just give "MACO casualties" its own page? --OuroborosCobra talk 22:25, 9 June 2009 (UTC) :There are only six known casualties and a whole lot of maybes. Also, MACO casualties was already merged with the the Military Assault Command Operations because of the low number of KIAs vs. WIAs, which since I don't own Star Trek: Enterprise, I can't compile. - Archduk3 22:29, 9 June 2009 (UTC) ::Then leave them there. The fact is, they don't belong here. They weren't members of Starfleet, flat out. Archer's lack of distinguishing them in terms of numbers lost has to do more with the fact that, Starfleet or not, they were members of his crew. This isn't an "Enterprise crew casualty list," though, so they shouldn't be here. --OuroborosCobra talk 22:31, 9 June 2009 (UTC) :Fair enough. - Archduk3 22:33, 9 June 2009 (UTC) TMP transporter casualties Who were the two people (and a security guard) among the Enterprise 1701 crew who died in a transporter accident in 2272. If that's supposed to be the same accident that killed Sonak, it's both redundant and a year off. If not, who was it and when was this referenced. :Events from Star Trek: The Motion Picture are mentioned in the film to be two-and a half years after the end of the TOS mission, referenced as being in 2270 -- two and a half years after something in the first half of 2270 would be in 2272. Of the two years TMP is possible to have taken place in 2272 or 2273, 2272 is closest to the other assumed date for that film, 2271 presented in the Star Trek Chronology. :The two people killed in the transporter were Sonak himself and an unnamed crewwoman, mentioned to be named Lori Ciana in Star Trek: The Motion Picture (novel), the novelization. Its not quite redundant to list each of the three of the people who died on that mission -- but it was clearer before an archivist separated that note which was originally on the same line as Sonak's entry. :The security guard was not killed in the transporter. V'Ger killed him on the bridge in a deleted scene, during the same mission. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk Data? Data isn't listed? Considering canonly he's a sentient being, he should be here. 10:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) :Data should be listed. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk Redshirt Reference The reference to the redshirt article should be removed. The referenced article, while interesting, is not canon and should not be referenced in this manner. Aholland 23:50, 5 February 2006 (UTC) Non-Canon; Incomplete This article requires someone to go through and (1) remove non-canon information (e.g., the name of the captain of the U.S.S. Intrepid), and (2) include notations of missing casualties (e.g., the rest of the crew of the U.S.S. Intrepid). Not to pick on the Intrepid, but that's just the one spot check I did.Aholland 11:28, 8 February 2006 (UTC) :The Captain of the Intrepid is not necessarily non-canon here, per se, as this site does accept references cut from scripts, deleted scenes, and in some cases background information as "useful references," which is more or less noted on Satak's page. Additionally, I'm not sure what you mean exactly regarding the crew of the Intrepid. What is wrong with: "Satak's entire Vulcan crew of 400 was killed by a giant space amoeba"? Finally, the lack of names, which seems to be more of the case here than inaccuracies, should be what is reflected in the template used, therefore I changed it to pna-incomplete, as I am sure there are more casualties not listed there that should be. --Alan del Beccio 11:42, 8 February 2006 (UTC) Noting the entire crew is fine; I somehow "blipped" over that - sorry. However, I do not believe that the name "Satak" exists in the episode as shown, or in any other relevant source material that is "semi-canon" (scripts, etc.) If a source can be named that makes sense for canon purposes, I'm all for it. Otherwise it should simply be listed as the vessel name with all hands lost. Aholland 12:32, 8 February 2006 (UTC) : yeah, I dropped the ball on that one. --Alan 17:53, 17 May 2008 (UTC) episode reference Out of curiosity, why are the episodes in which the characters were killed or had their deaths referenced not included in each line? F8street 13:47, 8 May 2006 (UTC) :Because the point of a list article is to be as informative as possible while still giving the reader cause to read further.. each character's name is a link to a separate article, and each separate article contains a link to the episode where the character died. Basically, the list is just for the names and as brief as possible an explanation of the death, and the reader who wants to know the episode reference will simply have to click the name to find out more information. (after all, this article would double or triple in size if we started adding more data, and this seems unnecessary if the data is duplicated in a separate article linked from here). -- Captain M.K.B. 14:01, 8 May 2006 (UTC) Thanks, that makes sense. F8street 14:09, 8 May 2006 (UTC) Unnamed deaths should have a reference since there is no linked article. :-Archduk3 20:36, 2 June 2009 (UTC) Way of the Warrior? Was that operations woman on Defiant killed? Shes the one that that reported on the status of the cloaking device as the Defiant set of to collect Dukat. Her console exploded, Sisko went to her, but then went back to his seat. Does that mean she was dead, or not seriously hurt and could be left? Forum:List of officers killed by episode Looking for a list of episodes where a Starfleet officer is killed or all onscreen deaths. Does anybody know of such a list. I am using the episode descriptions to create one but I was hoping there might already be one. : You could probably extrapolate something from Starfleet casualties. --Alan del Beccio 01:49, 4 February 2007 (UTC) Fifty-eight? According to the note at the bottom of the section for the original Enterprise, the novelization puts the total death toll under Kirk's command at 96 and the on-screen deaths at 67... and then closes with a statement that "Fifty-eight deaths occurred during the five-year mission." Where does this last figure, which clearly contradicts the two preceding it, come from? - Caswin 23:23, 15 August 2008 (UTC) : If you subtract all the non-Five year mission casualties (2272/2285/2254), and Leslie and Galloway, you get 57 deaths. So, when Aurelius Kirk added that note in 2006, he must've miscounted somewhere (I did twice trying to make sure of the count). I'll take the note out.--Tim Thomason 00:19, 16 August 2008 (UTC) ''Enterprise''-C and Voyager Added the known crew members since they were listed as KIA when the ship was lost. Also, Tasha may be from an alt universe but she died in the the prime universe. This makes Harry Kim and Naomi Wildman status problematic. Any thoughts on those two? Do we have an image of Kim's death? -Edited from my previous comments by Archduk3 21:37, 2 June 2009 (UTC) Deep Space 9 Section needs citations. -Archduk3 17:42, 2 June 2009 (UTC) Enterprise NX-01 Should someone add Sim to the list? I suppose the symbiot, himself wasn't a member of starfleet but he was a copy (including memories) so as far as Sim was concerned he was Tucker. (And he was given a Starfleet-style sendoff) — Morder 22:58, 2 June 2009 (UTC) :Is there a better image for him? -Archduk3 23:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC) Removed from article *Unnamed security/engineering officer killed by the rebel Jem'Hadar along with crewmen and Bajorans in the attack on Deep Space 9. *Two security officers were killed while protecting the members of the Detapa Council with Dukat and Garak. I can't find anything on two people being killed in which I think is what the second entry is from, but I have no idea what the first one is. If anyone knows who these people are please add them back in with proper citations or links. -Archduk3 03:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC) New Tables I finish redoing the tables later today. - Archduk3:talk 11:12, 6 July 2009 (UTC) Some questions Just to clear things up a bit. First, why was Sam removed from the list? Charlie made him disappear, so he is dead (sort of). Yes, he was restored in the novelization, but it was never mentioned on screen. Second, does Wesley Crusher being stabbed in "Hide and Q" count as his death? If it does, then it should be added to the TNG revivals. [[User:QuiGonJinn|'QuiGonJinn']]Talk 13:20, 21 August 2009 (UTC) :Sam's removal was most likely a mistake when the new tables were added. I haven't seen the episode in awhile but I think someone said Worf was dead after being stabbed, so if that happened for Wesley, then yes, he should be. - Archduk3:talk 15:06, 21 August 2009 (UTC) Michael Jonas's entry in the "Rank" column I see that the recently added for Michael Jonas under USS Voyager lists him as a crewman, which is supported in all his appearances. Yet, the rank pip shown next to his name is that of a Chief Petty Officer, as is shown on the Starfleet ranks page and is evident from the file name ("Vgr chief.png"). I looked at the picture of him and see that he was indeed wearing that rank pip. However, wouldn't this be classified as a production error, much like Tuvok's fluctuating rank early in the show? Since he was stated on numerous occasions to be a Crewman, I would think that we should show him on this page with the rank of a crewman--namely, with blank.gif for his rank pip (like we have for other crewmen on this page). Thoughts, anyone? -Mdettweiler 03:24, 22 August 2009 (UTC) Edit: I see that Lon Suder is this way, too. Interestingly enough, Suder is also seen wearing the one-bar provisional insignia in screenshots of him that I found on Trekcore from "Meld". Maybe this is just standard practice to have not only CPOs but crewmen as well wear the one-bar insignia if they're provisional? ("Official" Starfleet crewmen would, of course, have no rank insignia, though in this case the discussion is regarding provisional guys.) -Mdettweiler 03:32, 22 August 2009 (UTC) :It seems to be the correct rank, see Starfleet ranks, Seska is an ensign, I'll make the change now. - Archduk3:talk 03:37, 22 August 2009 (UTC) ::Seska is also shown with the hollow bar insignia of a crewman or enlisted, so now we have a problem with her rank. - Archduk3:talk 03:43, 22 August 2009 (UTC) :::Hmm, I see what you mean. Probably we should treat this like we do for other costuming errors (like some of Tuvok's earlier ranks like I mentioned in my initial posting), and show it as the correct rank (one filled bar, for ensign)? -Mdettweiler 03:53, 22 August 2009 (UTC) As that is what it is now, I don't see any reason to change it until we know more, though you would think someone would have caught it by now, the picture on her page makes it pretty clear. - Archduk3:talk 04:08, 22 August 2009 (UTC) Timeline issues I know this gets confusing, but the Picard listed as killed by himself is from an alternate timeline, but was killed in the "actual" timeline, and so is listed under the main section instead of the alternate one. This is the same reasoning that has Tasha Yar listed twice in the main section, under both the Enterprise-'C' and D'. And if Harry Kim, Miles O'Brien, or Naomi Wildman are killed (again) they will also be listed twice. - Archduk3:talk 12:39, September 4, 2009 (UTC) *IMO, if the second Picard is from an alternate timeline, he should not be counted as a prime timeline casualty. See, in the "actual timeline", there is only ''one Jean-Luc Picard assigned to the Enterprise-D; that Picard survived the events of , therefore the "prime" Enterprise took no casualties during the episode. Listing the "alternate" Picard in the main subsection makes things too confusing. It would be much easier if the latter was listed in the "alternate timeline casualties". [[User:QuiGonJinn|'''QuiGonJinn]]Talk 17:31, September 4, 2009 (UTC) The thinking behind this is our Picard had to write a report to Starfleet about the events of that episode, including killing himself, which means there would be a record of his death in the "actual" timeline. - Archduk3:talk 12:38, September 7, 2009 (UTC) "Multiple Timelines" banner Since the vast majority of the article is dealing entirely with the "prime" timeline, perhaps this should be relocated to the "Alternate Timelines and Parallel Universes" section? -Mdettweiler 18:20, September 24, 2009 (UTC) :I was thinking about splitting the article there anyway. I'll move the one down now and add the new timeline banner to the AR section. - Archduk3:talk 19:06, September 24, 2009 (UTC)